The National Children’s Advocacy Center models, promotes and delivers excellence in child abuse response and prevention through service, education, and leadership.
March 22-25, 2021
Visit http://symposium.nationalcac.org/registration-2021/ for more information.
To learn more about the work we do for Children’s Advocacy Centers, visit: https://www.maestrovision.com/child-advocacy-interview-recording
Read More In part 1 of this series, our VP of Marketing, Jessica Wein spoke with Kathryn Marsh, an Assistant Chief of the Special Victim’s Unit and Legislative Policy Co-Chair at the Office of the State’s Attorney for Prince George’s County in Maryland. Kathryn answered questions about her role as a prosecutor during COVID-19.
In part 1 of this series, our VP of Marketing, Jessica Wein spoke with Kathryn Marsh, an Assistant Chief of the Special Victim’s Unit and Legislative Policy Co-Chair at the Office of the State’s Attorney for Prince George’s County in Maryland. Kathryn answered questions about her role as a prosecutor during COVID-19.
In part 2, Kathryn answers Google’s 6 Most Common Asked Admissibility Questions. See below for her answers.
Kathryn: A judge always makes the decision on a court order, so they’re technically who grants or denies it. Either side can petition for one. In the criminal world, we’ll call it the state or the government and the defendant. In the civil world, we’ll call it the petitioner and the defendant.
Kathryn: That varies based on jurisdiction. Some states are a one-party consent state saying that only one side needs to be aware of the recording. If you’re in a one-party state, then yes because clearly someone knows it’s being recorded. Some states are two-party meaning both sides have to consent to the recording for it to be used. You have additional exceptions for two-party consent cases if police are investigating certain kinds of crimes. If they’re investigating murder crimes, murder for hire, rape, child abuse, certain drug dealing crimes, they’re allowed to do one-party recordings. Or undercover officers can be wired up and those can be used. The US is split between those two different types of jurisdictions.
Kathryn: This will vary as well. If a person is found not guilty of a crime, they have the right to file for expungement. If the court grants the expungement, every record of that crime must be destroyed because it’s as if it never happened. That’s one caveat to retention of recordings: I believe best practice is if a person is convicted of a crime, the evidence should be maintained as long as the person is still serving the sentence or on probation for the crime because the defendant will still have appeal rights. If somebody wins an appeal, they have to participate in another trial so you can’t destroy evidence. If someone is still serving probation, they still have rights to post conviction hearings because they’re still suffering the effects of the crime, so you don’t want to destroy evidence. For me, if it’s any serious felony, I tell them never to destroy it. They will always have a right to challenge their conviction and that evidence needs to be maintained to keep the integrity of the case.
Kathryn: When you’re talking about suspect interviews, the 5th and 6th amendments are most often the legal arguments to the actual suppression of the suspect’s statement. A secret recording could suppress a witness’s statement because if it was illegally obtained, I can’t use it. Any Miranda violation, forcing or making threats, compelling or intimidation to get the statement isn’t allowed. The 5th amendment is saying that you can’t be compelled to be a witness against yourself at trial. That’s where you have the right to remain silent. So, you have to agree to waive that right in order to talk to the police.
The 6th amendment includes your right to counsel. If you’ve hired an attorney and law enforcement goes to take a statement from you and they don’t allow you to consult with your attorney or have your attorney present (and you already have one), that too would make it so the statement was suppressed. Which is why your Miranda warnings state “you have the right to remain silent, anything you say can be used against you, you have the right to an attorney, if you don’t have an attorney, one can be provided for you”. An individual has to sign and waive their rights in order to make a statement. If they don’t do that, and the person’s in custody and is being interrogated by law enforcement, that interview is going to be suppressed.
Kathryn: As a piece of evidence, you have to have somebody who can attest or swear under oath to a jury that it’s the person and they know it is. If somebody has personal knowledge and says they can identify their voice, then they can be a witness for the trial. I can’t personally attest to anybody’s voice, that’s what we have a witness for. Or sometimes you can identify the individual from the context of the statement.
Say it’s an embezzlement case containing two parties and there’s a recording where one person is saying “ok, put it in this account, here’s the password to that” and I can show that the account belongs to this person and they’re the ones who created the password; by context I can show who it is.
Jail calls are a big piece of evidence because they’re recorded all across the country. Callers have to put in the pin number that they’re given at the jail. We’ll have a witness that will recognize their voice, or from the context, if they’re talking about all the evidence in the case, that’s only given to the defendant in the jail as we don’t give someone’s evidence to another defendant.
So those are some of the ways you can verify an audio recording. We prefer video recordings all the time and its protections for everybody because if you have a police officer who’s taking a statement from somebody, we’ve got to show: 1. If they’re in custody, that Miranda was complied with, 2. There were no promises, threats or inducement or force to get that statement. If you have just audio and the defendant takes the stand and says “Hey, this guy told me before he started the recording that if I didn’t do this he was going to make sure my kids were placed in foster care”, or “they slammed me into the wall” or anything like that, it could be a question in a jurors mind. By everything being on video from the second they walk into the room, (before they start anything) the jury has the ability to see everyone’s demeanor. Are the police officers intimidating or threatening? Are they aggressive in how they’re asking the questions? Or is it a really laid-back interview? Did the defendant’s body language or demeanor change when they started questioning him or her about other things? You can read into that. Are they really relaxed until you start asking them about the crime? Does their leg start shaking? Do they start sweating? Ideally, I much prefer video recorded statements but if audio is all I got, audio’s all I got.
Kathryn: Miranda only applies if they’re in custody. If you’re interviewing somebody who, at the time you believe is a witness and they’re not arrested or in custody, it’s most likely a voluntary statement. If that same individual later becomes a suspect, after the statement was given, they didn’t have to have Miranda read to them. It’s only if they’re in custody and they’re not free to leave. Voluntary statements can always be used without Miranda.
The government provides all evidence to the defense attorney. Even if we aren’t planning to use it, We give every piece of evidence we give them. The defense attorney will then file motions to suppress evidence. That’s not to say there are times that I’ve heard a statement and I have realized I can’t use it because sometimes a police officer may make a misstatement about the law, I still provide the statement and let the defense attorney know I won’t be admitting the statement.
For example, there’s a couple of different ways sex offense crimes can happen. If a police officer makes a misstatement to the suspect where they believe, “hey, if I admit to that, it’s not a crime” anything up until that misstatement of law, I can use. Anything afterwards, I cannot.
At MaestroVision, we strive to provide resources for entities that demand justice for victims and witnesses. We understand that when it comes to submitting evidence, the quality of your recording is of the utmost importance. Our interview recording software was built with broadcast quality video capture ensuring suspect, victim and witness statements are clearer than ever to ensure that the conviction process runs smoothly for law enforcement, child advocacy centers.
Kathryn Marsh is an Assistant Chief of the Special Victim’s Unit and Legislative Policy Co-Chair at the Office of the State’s Attorney for Prince George’s County in Maryland. She has held a career as a prosecutor for seventeen years. For the past twelve years, she has specialized in child abuse, domestic violence and sexual assault cases. She also functions as a professional trainer for prosecutors, staff, law enforcement, educational institutions, community organizations, State organizations and other legal professionals. She serves on National and State Task Forces.
Jessica Wein, MaestroVision’s Vice President of Marketing, met with Kathryn to learn more about her role and ask her some pertinent questions regarding the admissibility of evidence. Here’s what she learned:
Jessica: Can you tell me a little more about your role?
Kathryn: I’m a prosecutor. Specifically, I’m the Assistance Chief for our Special Victim’s Unit. The Special Victim’s Unit handles all felony, domestic violence, child abuse, child exploitation, sexual abuse and sexual assault cases. It’s very interview heavy. We have interviews of minor children, victims, witnesses and obviously suspects (if they decide to give a video recorded interview). In a COVID world, we’re not able to try cases in the courtroom. As of Monday, we’ve had to go back to Zoom hearings, so we’ve had to put a halt to jury trials again. We’ve had to review a lot of our statements and we can still have motions on statements. Legal arguments include: if the statement was admissible, if there was a violation of Miranda or if there was there a violation of the statement being free and voluntary (which would make the statement be suppressed).
I am in a jurisdiction where almost all of our statements are video recorded. We have a child advocacy center which does all of our forensic interviews of children. Child advocacy centers are unique because an independent forensic interviewer (who is certified in forensic interviews of children) facilitates the interviews. Child interviews need to be done a little differently because they have to involve open ended questions. They can’t be suggestive of any answer. They have to let the child tell the story in their own words, and then go back and follow up after that.
Child advocacy centers in general involve a multi-disciplinary team. We’ll have the detective there, myself or one of the other prosecutors in our unit, the caseworker for Child Protective Services, and a referral person who is in charge of connecting the family with all kinds of services. Generally, we watch the interview live in another room. The interviewer takes a break part way through the interview where they’ll come make contact with us and say, “is there anything else you need?”
The ultimate goal is that the child is only interviewed once. So, we ensure the interview is done in a child-friendly, safe environment. Before Child Advocacy Centers, a detective would perform the interview and then bring it to the prosecutor. The prosecutor would let the detective know what information was missing which resulted in the children being interviewed 3 to 4 times which was very traumatizing for them. CACs reduced that. We still participate in those interviews, but they’re performed through WebEx now because of COVID.
I also review police interviews. When they’re done, I get copies of the interviews and review them to make a determination if there an issue with the defendant or suspect’s statement. Even if we think everything’s fine and there’s no issue, a defense attorney can still litigate if they think there’s an issue with the statement.
Jessica: So, you review suspect interviews and witness interviews to ensure there is no information missing and that the laws are abided so that the interview cannot be suppressed?
Kathryn: Correct. So only the interview of the actual suspect can be suppressed. But we have to listen to the victims and the witnesses to make sure that no information is missing, and they weren’t given incorrect information.
Jessica: Who are your main channels of contact during the interview review process?
Kathryn: Typically, a law enforcement officer begins an investigation, then they’ll contact us and we go through what we in house call “a screening process” where we review the case and all of the evidence with the detective. We’ll then let them know what follow up questions and information we’ll need to meet the beyond a reasonable doubt threshold. Sometimes, even after we screen the process, a witness or another victim will reach out to us. We’ll then ask law enforcement to follow up with that individual. We don’t want to facilitate the interviews ourselves because we don’t want to make ourselves a witness. A lot of times the child will tell us something during an interview, and we’ll realize, “oh, there’s four more people we need to talk to”. We then ask the detective to interview those new individuals as well.
Jessica: How does the suppression process work?
Kathryn: In any criminal case, you have to make sure that the evidence that’s going be presented was obtained fairly and not in violation of anybody’s rights. When we’re talking about suppression of defendant and a criminal defendant’s statements, you’re typically going to be referring to violations of the Fifth or Sixth Amendment of the Constitution. Is it their right to remain silent? Is it their right to counsel? If there were violations of those, or if the statement wasn’t given freely or voluntarily, or if you know that there were inducements, threats or promises made in order to get the person to give the statement, it can be suppressed. In other words, if the court finds that Miranda was violated.
If an individual is in the custody of law enforcement and is being interviewed by the police and they don’t think they’re free to leave; they have to be advised of those rights. If they’re not advised of their rights, their statement can be suppressed. When a statement is suppressed, that means we can’t use it in our case. When we are doing a trial, we could still use part of their statement, even if Miranda was violated, if the statement was knowingly and voluntarily given (although not during the prosecutor’s case in chief). For instance, if the defendant takes the stand and ends up saying something completely different than what he told law enforcement. Although I couldn’t use his statement in my case in chief, I can impeach him and say “wait a second… That’s not what you said.” For that I have to show that the statement was freely and voluntarily given; so there were no inducements, threats or promises made to get the suspect to say whatever they said.
Jessica: What is the review process for other articles of evidence that aren’t interviews? Also, what is your role during the actual court hearing?
As a prosecutor, we have to review every piece of evidence because we make the ultimate decisions regarding which crimes are going to be charged. Also, we consider how the case is going to trial. So, we have to review everything: surveillance videos, ring camera videos, cell phone data, traffic cameras, any evidence collected from search warrants, etc.
We are also ethically required to provide every piece of evidence we have to the defense. The prosecutor has to prove that the crime occurred, and the person charged is the one who committed the crime. The police are charged with collecting all the bits of evidence to prove that “John Doe” is the one who committed it.
Law enforcement will then bring the evidence to a prosecutor, like me, and then I’ll review it to make the charging determination. I have to consider if I think the evidence is enough to sustain a charge. Whenever I feel there is enough evidence, I’ll charge the suspect and prepare to take them to trial. Once I make the charging decisions, the case for all intents and purposes is ours. It’s not the detectives anymore. I prepare the case for motions and hearings regarding any evidence which should be suppressed, or I try and bring in additional evidence. Those are my roles.
Meanwhile, the defendant has a defense attorney, and their role is to try to suppress “bad evidence” and bring in what they consider “good evidence”. The motions and hearings before trial are all done outside the presence of a jury.
There are legal standards for almost everything. We argue those legal standards with the judge. For a video recorded statement of the suspect, it’s up to me to tell the judge why it meets the totality of the circumstances to be admitted and why I can play it for a jury. The defense attorney is going to try to say, “Hey, judge, it violates this condition, this condition, this condition so you should not allow it into the trial.” We’ll do those (hearings) before we get to trial, in an ideal world., Once we start the trial, we should all know what evidence we’ll be able to bring in or not bring in, outside of how people answer questions or don’t answer questions on the stand.
That’s the behind the scenes work in criminal law that never gets shown in movies or TV shows. There’s so much work that happens before you ever walk in to actually do the trial.
Jessica: You’ve been doing trials virtually since COVID?
Kathryn: We don’t do trials virtually because there’s a lot of legal issues that could be violated by a virtual trial. A criminal defendant has the right to confront their witnesses, which can be difficult over Zoom. When the trial is over, the jury is instructed that they’re the sole judge of a witness’s credibility – they can choose to believe all, part, or none of witness’s testimony based on how that juror testifies. The Jury judges the credibility. It gets really hard to judge a witness’s credibility when it’s over a TV screen and you’re not able to see their body language, how they interact with other people, their facial expressions and things like that. There’s also an issue with regard to identification. In a trial, the job of the government is to show that the person we’ve put on trial is the one who committed the crime. We typically have to have a witness there to identify them which can be difficult through a screen.
In the jurisdiction I work in, we have a very large immigration population. Many of our cases have required translators and interpreters which is even more difficult when you have people on screens who aren’t in the same room and may not realize that the interpreter is still trying to interpret what we said last to a defendant or a witness. As a result, we can end up missing pieces of evidence, and it’s important for the defendant to hear and understand everything that’s being said. They need to be able to participate in the trial against them. So, we’re not doing trials, but we are doing motion hearings.
Jessica: Do you have issues with social distancing and max capacity and masks during a trial?
Kathryn: Post COVID, we’ve had five weeks of trial that we were allowed to have jury trials with jurors coming into the courthouse. We just got shut down again and we actually had to reconfigure the courtroom. As you see in TV and movies, you’ve got the jury box like with the “12 Angry Men”. Well, clearly that’s not socially distanced so when we resume in person trials again, they’ll be spread out throughout the entire courtroom so that they maintain proper social distancing. Everybody has to wear a mask in the courtroom. So, we have to make sure that we can still speak clearly and distinctly through the mask
Jessica: How can you tell if someone is lying if they’re wearing a mask?
Kathryn: The courts where we are have ordered clear masks. They wear those masks while they’re testifying. There’s also Plexi glass around the witness box. The jurors don’t have to judge our (attorneys) facial expressions. We should try not to have facial expressions during trial anyway. So, everybody still has to wear a mask. Think about your line of work with digital recording, we have to make sure our recording systems can pick up our words so there’s a complete record. It’s a lot harder to distinguish words when you’re talking behind something.
We’ve also updated technology in the courtrooms. Before COVID, if we wanted to argue about being able to ask a question or admit a picture, we would ask, or the judge would have us (attorneys) approach the bench. We’d go up to where the judge is sitting and they’d turn on white noise (which sounds like static in the courtroom) while we argue quietly so the jury can’t hear our arguments because the judge has to make a ruling. But now, in the world of COVID, we can’t get close to the judge, so we all have headsets and speak quietly into them. It’s like a closed recording system between the judge, defense attorney and the state.
Check out part 2 where Kathryn answers Google’s 6 Most Frequently Asked Questions Regarding Admissibility of Evidence.
First and foremost, we want to thank our essential workers and first responders in managing & putting their lives at risk during this pandemic. We couldn’t continue our work without their effort & dedication!
Also, we wish to mention that we are proud to say that we have not interrupted our services during this pandemic. We are grateful for being considered “an essential business” and allowing us to provide goods & services, thus enabling our customers’ essential workers to conduct their missions as scheduled.
That being said, as we wrapped up the year and had a great holiday season let’s take a look back at some of our 2020 highlights.
We are happy to announce that the following police departments have trusted us with managing their police interrogation recording and media library management as well as providing turnkey solutions for interrogation rooms.
We value their essential work and are continuously striving to provide great customer and technical support to ensure all of their procedures are optimal!
We installed 6 interrogation rooms, our VEOTEK Media Library and a touch screen.
The city of Laval, located in Québec, with a population of 420,000 inhabitants, has a level 3 police station with 800+ police officers serving their community.
We installed 1 interrogation room and a touch screen,
The city of St-Eustache, located in Québec, with a population of 44,000+ inhabitants, has a level 1 police station with 50+ police officers serving their community.
We installed 1 interrogation room and a touch screen.
The city of Repentigny, located in Québec, with a population of 84,000+ inhabitants, has a level 1 police station with 100+ police officers serving their community.
We installed 1 interrogation room.
The city of Repentigny, located in Québec, with a population of 116,000+ inhabitants, has a level 2 police station with 200+ police officers serving their community.
We installed 2 interrogation rooms.
First Nations Territory with 2,000 inhabitants
For more information about the police department levels, please visit the webpage of the Ministère de la Sécurité publique du Québec.
We also participated in our first virtual event in the education industry, which was an amazing experience to discuss with challenges on teaching in a virtual environment.
As we provide recording solutions for the classroom, we have established interesting alliances with new partners that will allow us to improve our solutions even more.
We are happy to announce that we have two new employees! Heartwarming welcome to our team and wish you all the success in your careers!
We look forward to working together as a team!
Starting earlier this year, we offered a free basic version of our #1 application: KEYSERV VIDEO.
It’s a free version, with a few limitations, that enables users to record 1-hour length video files.
KEYSERV VIDEO is 100% compatible with all major video conference applications including but not limited to: Zoom, Teams, Google Meets, etc.
For more than 20 years, MaestroVision has been very involved in its community. Claude Turcotte, the president of the company has created a culture of returning to the community.
“Most of our customers are in the public domain. This market made MaestroVision the world leader in video recording and management. It is normal that we participate in the development of social groups.”
In an effort to support organizations who are striving to make the conviction process less traumatizing for victims and witnesses, MaestroVision is now offering 50% off all of our video recording software for non-profit organizations. If you’re the owner of a 501c3 nonprofit, please complete the form below to request a demo and quote.
Terms: This offer is limited to 5 qualifying non-profits in the 2024 year. This offer expires on 12/31/2023 at 11:59 pm EST.
Facilitating a suspect interview is no walk in the park. If you’re a detective or investigator looking for a recipe for success, good luck finding one straight shoot answer for each of your questions. There are many methods and strategies employed by law enforcement and the answer will vary depending on who you’re asking. However, when you’re asking questions about the admissibility of evidence, Miranda rights, and legalities of interviewing, the answers are pretty clear cut.
Earlier this year, we compiled suspect interview tips from 11 LEOs worldwide. In this article, our Director of Marketing, Jessica Wein reached out to two officers to ask how they would answer 11 of Google’s most frequently asked questions regarding suspect interviews. Learn more about these officers and see their answers to our questions below…
First, a little about the officers she interviewed:
Rick Musson is a law enforcement consultant for FreeAdvice.com. He is a 19-year law enforcement officer in Bozeman, Montana.
Justin Boardman, a retired Special Victims Unit detective and founder of Boardman Training and Consulting, trains law enforcement in the trauma-informed victim interviewing protocol he developed. Reshaping the victim interviewing process led him to change the way in which he interviews suspects as well. He notes:
“Because of the impact trauma has on a victim’s emotions and memories, perpetrators of sex crimes can seem like the rational, truthful party. A skilled suspect interview, supported by thoughtful preparation, will gather information that can be used to reconstruct portions of the crime the victim cannot remember.”
JB: In my prep for a suspect interview, I would:
RM: A full understanding of the details of the case will contribute to a more effective interview. The more information you know about the case and the suspect you have, the more specific you can be in your questioning. When you know as many of the facts as you can before the interview, you will be better able to compare those facts with the suspect’s answers. Obviously, statements that don’t match up with facts are red flags and can help the investigator move forward with more pointed questions.
JB: I ask: “Will you help me understand what you are able to remember about what happened?” Then I’m quiet. Once the suspect has stopped speaking for a bit, I may ask some follow up questions around the elements of the crime.
RM: Usually, I begin with introductory questions, such as: who they are, where they live, where they work/what they do. Engaging in some small talk/conversation to build a rapport with the suspect and get a baseline for how they respond to questions gives valuable insight for later questions that are critical to the case.
JB: Custody is a legal issue that should guide a suspect interview, if custody is intended. Also: probable cause, freedom to leave and basic Miranda issues.
RM: Legal issues during an interview may differ from state to state. Even with the Miranda Warning, which seems fairly universal, states have different requirements for when and how you read it to the suspect. Some states allow the investigator to lie to the suspect and some states do not.
JB: This is certainly a gray area. I will not interview a jailed suspect if they have been assigned an attorney. In fact, would err on the side of caution and call the defense attorney if the suspect were to contact me without being coerced.
RM: You cannot interview a suspect in jail who has been assigned a public defender without their attorney present.
JB: That depends on timing. Any chance you get to talk with a suspect is good, but it might take more than just one interview, especially if you mean formal interviews.
I try to interview at the very end of my case. I want to talk to witnesses to corroborate what I learned from the victim, then compare notes with what the suspect says, then go out and corroborate what the suspect tells me. The process needs to be fair and balanced. Sometimes I’d avoid an interview until I screened the case with the prosecutor. This was due to safety issues. Especially in sexual assault cases involving intimate partner relationships.
RM: The investigator may need to avoid an interview with the suspect due to legal considerations, such as the laws around the Miranda Warning. It is rare that an investigator would avoid an interview. The investigator may delay the interview due to the suspect’s condition or to allow more preparation for the investigator.
JB: This one is a little bit harder, it varies from case to case and it varies depending on safety as well. What I suggest for sexual assault investigations is I use the phone first. I do this because:
RM: The process depends on the state laws regarding suspect interviews. Universally, in the U.S., you would need to Mirandize a suspect when they are in custody and being interrogated. Each state builds their law from those requirements and the protocol is surprisingly varied.
You would begin an interview as you would begin a normal conversation. In normal conversation, you do not begin with “Can I have a conversation with you?” Similarly, you would not begin an interview with, “Can I interview you.” Typically, you would start with small talk and basic introductory information and then steer the conversation to the subject you’re investigating.
JB:
JB: Tone. Jumping around in the telling of their experience. Avoiding questions. What most sexual assaults come down to is that it’s usually a known person, and it comes down to consent. If I can get as much detail as possible this will help me to corroborate their experience. I’ll ask how they know it was consensual.
I build the case from the victim’s statement. If the suspect didn’t come in, I’d still have a strong case. If the suspect did not participate, I have a very strong case. From the very start of investigating sex crimes, I do it assuming I will never get to talk to the suspect. If I get to, it is icing on the cake. I still screen it with the prosecutor. Sometimes there isn’t enough to make the statute requirements.
RM: If “read” means reading Miranda rights, a suspect would be “read” by outright being read their Miranda rights.
If “read” means reading body language and inconsistencies, interrogators start the conversation with basic questions for a reason. Basic questions get basic answers that are typically truthful. If the suspect’s body language and speech patterns change when answering questions about the incident in question, it could be a red flag indicating lying or deception.
JB: I err on the side of caution. I’m confident in my casework. Some officers will say you can leave any time so they don’t’ need to Mirandize. I say, “I’m happy you came in. I want to hear your side and want to be sure everything is figured out, but I will feel more comfortable reading you Miranda.” Some will leave. But if they come in, typically they will talk. I start with outside details that you can corroborate with witness and victim statements. Then I work toward the BAM moment.
RM: I would advise them of their rights per Miranda. Other than that, I would let the situation lead. Some people assume that an interrogator and would begin the interview process by demanding the suspect tell the truth or face certain consequences. In reality, some states consider that coercion, so that tactic should certainly be avoided in those states.
JB: The threat event. The moment the victim understood the threat. Where the event goes from consensual to not consensual.
With the victim, I work from BAM out to the external details. With the suspect, I work from the outside details into the BAM event. Suspects fill in gaps. Even if what they corroborate is not against the law, it helps corroborate with the victim’s experience.
If I can locate some of the neurobiology of trauma in the victim’s interview, from their perspective they were raped. It cannot be faked. If they are saying “I didn’t fight back. I tried to scream but I couldn’t” and they don’t have a background in how traumatic memories form. People usually feel “If I was raped, I would scream.” That’s not how it works. Your brain takes over – you don’t choose what happens.
Imagine you are driving. If someone runs a light and you slam on your breaks. You don’t think about it. That little switch is something you can’t control. It’s the same with your reaction to a BAM moment. You might:
JB: It takes as long as it takes, and it depends. It could take 2 minutes if they invoke Miranda. It could be a war of words. I have a friend known for long interviews. He used trauma-informed interviewing before it was a thing to build trust with the suspect. There is a time where fatigue will step in and you need to take a break.
RM: It could take minutes or it could take several hours and even several interviews. Not only does the length of time depend on the case, but it also depends on the person being interviewed. If the suspect admits to everything, the interview could go quite quickly.
Video evidence is the key to building a strong case when executing suspect, witness or victim interviews. Ensure that you’re utilizing reliable interview recording systems that display every aspect of the interview in order to bring that evidence to light. Email us at info@maestrovision.com to learn more about how our interview recording systems can help improve the process of your investigation today.
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Mary Homiston is a court reporter with the State of Wisconsin for 20+ years. She has a wide variety of experience within different kinds of courts including divorce, criminal, and drug – to name a few.
Our Director of Marketing, Jessica Wein, met with Mary to ask a few pertinent questions regarding her life as a court reporter including: what piqued her interest in the profession, what education and training did she undergo, what are her daily roles and responsibilities, how they have changed as the result of the pandemic, and more.
Check out our interview below.
Jessica: Would you say that the majority of what you record are depositions or hearings?
Mary: Now it’s all hearings because I only work with a judge. When I was a freelancer, I only did depositions. I would do some medical conferences with doctors discussing how to implement different types of health insurance. You’d have a room of 70 doctors and write down what each of them said. That’s all I did for the first 6 years. Then, I had my daughter in 1994 and moved back to Wisconsin and needed the health insurance and you didn’t have that as a freelancer so that’s when I started working with the court system for the state. I’ve been toying with the idea because as a freelancer, you make 3x the amount of money that you did as an official.
Jessica: Please tell me about a typical day as a court reporter during the pandemic. How many cases do you typically record?
Mary: Our court docket is always a little bit different. Depending upon the week’s designation being either criminal or civil, we may have a full day of divorces, evictions and other civil matters or a week’s worth of criminal hearings such as arraignments, motion hearings, plea and sentencing hearings or jury trials. Because of the pandemic, any or all of these hearings may be conducted via Zoom Technology to alleviate the chance for exposure. However, all jury trials must be done in person making it a bit more difficult to coordinate so that all participants can be kept as safe as possible. Before COVID-19, all jury panels were picked the morning of trial. Now, with social distancing and other safety precautions in place, the process is more complex and thus takes more time to go through the process of voir dire. We will pick a jury the afternoon before trial in a large conference room at the KI Center in Green Bay to ensure everyone is kept as safe from being exposed to the virus as possible and then the chosen people for that jury trial will go to the courthouse the next day to start the trial.
Jessica: Are there any other ways that you feel your job’s responsibilities or process has changed as a result of COVID?
Mary: As I mentioned previously, the process of voir dire has changed tremendously given the fact that we must spread out, keeping everyone at least six feet apart. What that does is it causes a myriad of hearing issues to try to make an accurate record, having to try to hear people answering questions up to 40 or 50 feet away, rather than five or ten feet away as was historically done in a courtroom. Also, we now use Zoom Technology for all other court hearings so instead of sitting in the courtroom with the judge and the parties, I listen to all hearings over my computer in my office and make a record from my office. So my job is now a completely different animal and there’s a huge learning curve with all of this. Everyone is doing the best that they possibly can but it’s a bit of a challenge right now.
Jessica: What tips would you give to court reporters also experiencing changes to their work responsibilities as a result of COVID?
Mary: Generally speaking, court reporters are perfectionists just because of the nature of the product we are making that must be absolutely accurate. When you have all of these different policies and processes that are infiltrating your job, it’s hard not to get bent out of shape about it and not let it consume or overwhelm you. I’ve tried to stay calm enough to go with it and do the best job I can do.
You can’t control it; everything is changing so quickly. If you try to control it, it’s counterproductive and you’re unable to do it. I’ve been in this industry since 1992. So, to do your job one way for over 25 years and then all of a sudden, your whole world changes just as it has for everybody during COVID. It can be a tough transition. I think we’re all just flying by the seat of our pants here and we’re all just doing the best that we can do.
Bonus Question for MaestroVision:
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